I just started thinking about it. Why is space exploration even that necessary? They’re spending so much money on it when we have so much problems in our own planet…

  • dfyx@lemmy.helios42.de
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    9 days ago

    Necessary? No. Not much except eating, drinking and breathing is. Even reproduction is optional from the view of a single individual.

    A good idea? Absolutely:

    1. Exploring space tells us a lot about earth. We currently assume that the moon formed when something big collided with earth and threw lots of material into a stable orbit. This means moon is probably made of the same materials as earth and because there is no erosion nor tectonic activity on the moon, it lets us study what earth may have looked like billions of years ago.
    2. Lots and lots of things that were originally developed for space are very useful on earth: teflon coating, memory foam matresses, efficient solar panels and many more. Sure, they could have been developed without space exploration but the pressure to get something exactly right helped a lot. And of course we directly use satellites for a lot of earth stuff, too. Think tv, weather prediction, monitoring of climate change, communication, GPS, accurate maps and many more.
    3. It gives humanity something to unite behind. Even during the cold war, the USA and the Soviet Union ignored their feud for a bit to make Apollo-Soyuz happen. These days, the ISS is one of the biggest multinational projects and I dread the day it gets decommissioned because Russia will have one less reason to talk to the rest of the world.
  • Onno (VK6FLAB)@lemmy.radio
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    9 days ago

    The impact to society from space exploration is immense if not immeasurable.

    • Weather forecasting
    • GPS navigation
    • Earth sciences
    • Robotics
    • Medical imaging

    NASA has a website dedicated to the topic, as do other agencies around the world.

    There’s also a Wikipedia page on the topic:

    • bl4kers@lemmy.ml
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      8 days ago

      The ingenuity and innovation required to make space travel possible (and efficient) is remarkable. Definitely falls into the category of “it’s not the destination, it’s the journey.” It’s important to continue challenging ourselves as a species.

  • HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml
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    9 days ago

    All attempts to discover how the universe works benefits us. Even a lot of really esoteric stuff has proven useful in fields like medicine and civil engineering.

    Honestly if we can pivot our high tech innovation efforts from being mainly driven by military needs to being driven by basic research (basic in this case meaning researching the natural world directly without any particular goal other than learning), we’d be a lot better off.

  • happybadger [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    9 days ago

    There’s a special kind of nerd that I call Puzzle Demons. They have big brains and they get satisfaction from solving puzzles without thinking about them. It doesn’t matter what the puzzle is so long as it’s a challenge to solve. They’ll look back on their work with satisfaction because they solved the puzzle, regardless of what that work is.

    Puzzle Demons in the 1940s built V-2 rockets. We gave them space travel and the puzzle became making the rocket leave the atmosphere instead of hitting cities. That space travel made helpful consumer technologies to survive in extreme environments, things that were otherwise too expensive for commercial R&D.

    Then we killed NASA in the 1980s. The Puzzle Demons had no socially positive puzzle. They built the tech industry instead. I dated a Puzzle Demon whose fun little puzzle to solve every day was designing the UI for smart locks that go on the bunkers of the wealthy. She was thrilled to make locking herself out of the bunker more user-friendly. There are Puzzle Demons at the social media websites whose entire job is making them more addictive for children. Puzzle Demons gave us crypto, guided missiles, murder robots, AI slop, and corporate efficiency consulting.

    We need space exploration to pacify the Puzzle Demons. Without it, the population is still encouraged to go into STEM but most of the STEM jobs are profoundly evil. You stick them in a NASA office and they’re just building useful things. Otherwise the prestige jobs are with defense contractors, tech companies, and multinationals.

      • happybadger [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        9 days ago

        China is even more STEM-intensive than the US. I would love to study at a Chinese university, but I would be the worst student there. My parents didn’t demand I score well on puzzles as a child so my inner Puzzle Demon is satisfied by grand strategy games but intimidated by anything beyond basic algebra. China has utilised its Puzzle Demons to do so many good things in recent years. They’re supporting their Puzzle Demons in state institutions and as a result they’re the only country able to actually address climate change or field a domestic space station. The Soviets democratised Puzzle Demon science and made their farmers and factory workers participants in projects that weren’t building more lethal drones. They were collaborating with their neighbours to do the little spreadsheet and crunch the numbers and see the result that benefited their neighbours.

        The US gives its Puzzle Demons hundreds of thousands of dollars in student debt and says the only way to actually pay that off is indentured corporate servitude doing something evil. They numb themselves in the moment to deal with it and find ways to justify it after. Their career history pushes them further into antisocial jobs where they can stomach the philosophical side because they weren’t required to take philosophy classes and were told to look down on humanities students.

        Give 'em NASA and sure it’s expensive. Sure most of the results are just cool new space pictures I’ll look at a few times. Sure I’d benefit more from social spending. But I can’t enjoy those parks if the Puzzle Demons are building murder robots that anyone can fly. I want them building really complex rockets that only a handful of heavily screened PhD-tier astronauts can fly. I don’t want them going to SpaceX and making profitable things because that profit enables Elon Musk and restricts development to short-term goals and marketable products. I want them in a strictly regulated government lab using their little graphing calculators to crunch the numbers and be some other planet’s problem. Not the one I have to live on.

        edit: And every satellite pointed outward is one that isn’t pointed inward. It’s the same job to build and control either. Fund the ones that point outward and make all the Science Kids want to grow up to look at cool space pictures instead of surveilling their neighbours.

          • happybadger [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            9 days ago

            It’s what drove me out of emergency medicine. My inner Puzzle Demon was completely satisfied by an environment where the puzzle is doing creative, emotional, technical, moral, manual labour for a noble mission. Keeping track of a dozen metrics and half a dozen textbooks, a constant stream of new puzzles, I got to indulge my need to compulsively read and analyse. But I also felt like a vampire because the US medical system means I save a life only to saddle a profoundly disabled person with an unpayable debt. The only non-Puzzle Demon route I could find was being an MSF doctor right as the west decided that bombing MSF hospitals was okay.

            It’s also what drove me into public sector horticulture. I get to spend all day in the sun solving puzzles. Every kind of labour involved except for emotional, but all of that Puzzle Demon energy goes into making meaningful public gardens. With those budgets shrinking and my pay freezing below subsistence level, the better-paying alternative is to be a private landscaper and poison my neighbours while stealing the water from their mouths. The richest assholes in the city get another trophy that I can’t even visit after work and it raises the surrounding property values. All roads lead to Puzzle Demonology without the disarmed public sector providing a sustainable alternative.

  • arthur@lemmy.zip
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    8 days ago

    Let me rewrite your question, and correct me if I’m misrepresenting it:

    “Why should we spend resources on X instead of Y?”

    Well, for this kind of question, I would prefer to choose a “high value” X and an “important” Y.

    Space exploration, and science as a whole, is extremely cheap and good for humanity.

    Let’s talk about other expensive “X” first:

    • Unnecessary war efforts.
    • ICE (if we are taking about US)
    • Saving banks when they screw up on their bets.
    • Incentives to coal and gas when solar is already more viable …

    Maybe you started to think about it because that’s an amazing subject, and it is. That alone should be reason enough for us to want to do it. But it is not the only reason. Space exploration already gave us a lot of tech we rely on today. And still, is a very difficult field that will require more tech advancements, that will benefit us in the future.

  • TiredTiger@lemmy.ml
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    9 days ago

    Necessary, yes. Furthering our knowledge of the cosmos is a worthwhile pursuit for its own sake. That being said, the sudden focus on NASA is pure political distraction, a clumsy attempt to foment nationalism that isn’t going to be as effective as its architects were hoping.

    • Ænima@lemmy.zip
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      8 days ago

      a clumsy attempt to foment nationalism that isn’t going to be as effective as its architects were hoping.

      It could have been effective if the lead up to the NASA push had lent itself to any hope of cooperation within our govt. As it stands, it just feels like a way for the ultra-wealthy to advance their commercial space interests through taxpayer funding.

  • fixmycode@feddit.cl
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    9 days ago

    yes. there’s two branching discussions here:

    • Space as a scientific topic, it needs to be understood. Our observation of reality is very local, and although we can prove that some of our assumptions about physics, life and civilization work on our neighborhood, it doesn’t mean that they’re the same everywhere. That alone is sufficient reason for me, to explore.
    • Space as the new frontier. Many if not all exploration done on planet Earth has been, in some shape or form, resource-motivated. Lands, food, medicine, minerals, routes, are all found through exploration and normally through people spending money looking for a return over investment. Space is no different.

    I think the interesting part is where this two branches touch: If we ever plan on capturing an asteroid for mining, the technology needs to be there to do it, and hopefully the technology is about the benefit of all humankind. This kind of development is showing us the way to move forward and solve problems. Imagine a world when we don’t need to destroy ecosystems in order to get iron because all iron comes from off-world.

  • Vupware@lemmy.zip
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    9 days ago

    Absolutely and unequivocally yes. Nothing should constrain the boundaries of scientific study in space, especially now that our years are numbered due to climate change and dumbass fascists and dictators with launch codes. Whities on the moon, while a noble and valuable sentiment, should be altered to whities on patrol or something.

    I’m so sick and tired of seeing Americans removed about space exploration colonialism and remain silent on the colonialism that continues to kill and exploit Innocent people across the world.

    Yes, we need better social infrastructure desperately, but that should come at the cost of terrestrial imperialism, not space exploration.

  • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
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    8 days ago

    Yes, but capitalists should not do it. And actually space exploration on today’s scale cost literal pennies compared to military or shareholders loot.

  • mlc894@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    The point is the advancement of science, not simply the travel itself. Space science is integral to many advances we take for granted these days.

  • AMoralNihilist@feddit.uk
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    8 days ago

    Firstly, people have such a massive misconception about the cost of space exploration. It is such a miniscule part of our overall expenditure it is a drop in the ocean. (It’s important now to distinguish between overall Space budgets and the exploration budgets since we spend a lot of money in space that’s not for scientific development nowadays).

    The Artemis program for example was 93 billion over 13 years, ~7 billion per year (2012-2025).

    The Iraq war cost ~5 trillion over 8 years. Or 625 billion per year.

    The entire Artemis program could have been funded by winding down the Iraq war a couple of months earlier.

    The annual cost of the NHS is 275 billion per year.

    The extra knowledge, research and development in everything from materials, human biology, life support systems, to just engineering management improvements yield absolutely massive benefits to life on earth, greatly outweighing the alternative.

    Not to mention inspiring people to enter STEM, especially girls who are still hugely underrepresented. Which has incredible benefits. Hell, even just making people excited about science and technology instead of so distrustful of it is so so important and intangible.

    Even if you extend the budgets to the entire space industry, it’s still a drop in the ocean, and most of the space industry budgets go directly to economic or defence benefits. Supply chain resilience, climate change policing, communications services, wildfire detection, industrial efficiency gains (e.g. data driven farming). As well as existential threats from space like solar storms and asteroids (although that’s an admittedly tiny portion of funding).

    This is coming from a space engineer and senior manager who has mostly fallen out of love with the industry because it is leaning towards profit focus instead of benefit focus. But it’s still one of the best bang for buck industries that exists.

    • luciferofastora@feddit.org
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      8 days ago

      The extra knowledge, research and development in everything from materials, human biology, life support systems, to just engineering management improvements yield absolutely massive benefits to life on earth, greatly outweighing the alternative.

      This is the non-linear aspect of research, where discoveries and improvements in one field may prove useful for other fields as well. Not all research pays off, but you can’t predict what will and won’t, so the “duds” that end up going nowhere are just part of the cost for the bangers that change the world. And who knows, maybe one of those duds may end up going off much later still!

      Not to mention inspiring people to enter STEM, especially girls who are still hugely underrepresented. Which has incredible benefits.

      More brains and perspectives examining a given problem increases the chances for useful solutions. Getting women into STEM isn’t a diversity measure for diversity’s sake, but an enrichment of the mental resource pool.

      because it is leaning towards profit focus instead of benefit focus

      Now there’s a chorus I’ve heard a hundred times…

      • AMoralNihilist@feddit.uk
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        7 days ago

        Agree completely!

        And yeah, VCs doing VC things has really made it a tough industry to be in lately 😭 I miss the early days of new space when we were just a bunch of nerds trying to make the space industry more effective at making the world a better place.

        Edit: don’t get me wrong, a lot of VCs are great, and have done wonders for the industry. I’ve had the pleasure of working with a few of them. However, the explosion of a new industry has attracted a bunch who just see a market for a market’s sake.

  • Tinks@lemmy.world
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    9 days ago

    I am of the opinion that space exploration and settlement is the single most important thing humanity should be doing. Currently humanity exists only on this planet, which through the course of its existence has had numerous mass extinction events. It is hubris to believe that we will never be affected by one. Right now all of humanity’s eggs are in this single basket, and if that basket gets kicked over, humanity could cease to exist.

    Now I will grant you that there are lots of things down here on earth that we should be spending money on to better the lives of humans generally, but these things are not mutually exclusive. Right now we’re spending orders of magnitude more money and resources waging war on one another than space exploration. In the US in 2025, the US military budget was around $920b, whereas NASA’s was $25b. The military budget was 36 times higher than the space budget. It’s not even close. Space is not where dollars are being wasted.

    Studies have also shown that NASA’s impact is a net positive on the economy, consistently generating more economic impact than is put into it. It creates well paying jobs that employees find fulfilling and satisfying, generates public interest in the sciences, and benefits society as a whole as new technologies are developed that we all get to enjoy.

    I would argue that what we NEED to do is stop needlessly murdering each other over religious and social disagreements, and spend our resources on feeding, clothing and taking care of one another such that we all have the time, security and ability to watch humans go out into space with wonder in our hearts.

  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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    8 days ago

    Yes, we need to do things like space exploration because these are the endeavours that advance humanity. Even in practical terms, plenty of discoveries that are useful here come from technologies developed for space exploration. If you’re really worried about unproductive use of resouces, maybe worry about how we deal with the pedo elites that rule over us and hoard resources on unimaginable scale.

    • Urist@lemmy.ml
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      8 days ago

      But we need pedo billionaires as test pilots for stress testing experimental rocket designs :((