fuck wages as a concept entirely. I want to do things because they need to be done, because they help the people around me, and because I enjoy them
I don’t want people to tell me I’m better than someone else just because I decided to focus on my special interest or fix something that was annoying me or some shit
I don’t want to exist anywhere near any system or ideology where they try and measure and pay “hard work”, I want to freely do shit I want to do without people trying to measure and dissect it and apply it to their own idea of “value”.
I hate it when people refuse to accept help because they feel like they don’t “deserve” it. That just wastes everyone’s time, so stop calling people leeches. The point of mutual aid is building structures that help everyone involved, and if you did that right people “using it” and not “giving back” don’t exist, because using it is “giving back”. Every bit of dependence any of us rip away from the capitalists undermines their power for all of us.
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what your talking about is Star Trek. if you find a way there please let me know I will be right behind you
what I’m talking about is mutual aid networks, and so how I interact among my friends and polycule and such. We produce more than we could ever possibly consume, so much has to be thrown away just to force us to keep working.
This is a video on that second bit I like here: https://youtu.be/ESp5IgjR6r0
This is within our grasp today.
Mutual air networks is just another way to say community networks, which itself is just a label for how small communities with limited means act organically.
The small (often rural but not always) communities I have lived in know that help isn’t coming and that individuals cannot survive on their own. Hence pot luck dinners, beer “fix’em” crews, church fundraisers for someone in need, cajun navy, etc.
i hope it is but if it’s got any kind of momentum it would be stamped out by the elite by force if necessary. It’s happened before when churches started moving in that direction just look up the National Association of Manufacturers and James William Fifield Jr at the turn of the last century to see what I mean.
they have tried to stamp us out for generations. Attacking us consumes resources on their end too, and unlike us they need to maintain an arbitrary level of resources (profit) or they collapse. We just need to build enough mutual aid and protect it well enough to win.
I love mutual aid. I’ve started organizations, and participated in others, including orgs that have faced extreme repression in the past, and/or have other chapters currently experiencing repression.
But one of the orgs, which has faced significant repression in the past (before my time), is still going strong. Not at the level it would have been if there had been no repression, but still strong.
However, these mutual aid organizations do accomplish what they set out to do, whether it is feeding their communities, keeping them warm or cool, providing hygenic supplies, harm reduction, and so on. Sure, if they had more resources, they’d accomplish more, but it’s surprising what can be done with what can be taken solely from donation, or surplus produce that will go bad if not used immediately.
I think saying “look what happened last time” in the sense that you should not do something because reactionaries reacted in a specific way is stupid, since you can learn from what went wrong, and build more resilient movements.
Mutual aid probably won’t overthrow capitalism (alone), but it is critical for providing the ability to build a better world under capitalism, and after it. And the solidarity fostered by participating in these movements? Priceless.
Well the path they took in Star Trek to get there isn’t… exactly a pleasant path…
Bell Riots coming next month.
Finally, a normal intelligent person. I almost thought they didn’t exist.
Big exaggeration but oh does it feel good to see someone else type exactly what i have been thinking and saying for years.
it took me years to find others who felt the same way, have you had luck with that? I ask because you seem like you are not used to it
Every time i attempt to explain myself people seem to think that i am boasting that i am better then them or something.
I can only assume they are projecting something on me, i just wanted better for everyone unconditionally without personal benefit other then living in a less fucked up world. Isnt that normal-selfish enough while still clearly in their benefits also? Apparently thats very hard for some to grasp.
Have you looked into anarchist communities? What I typed here was like, just a basic summery of stuff that is completely uncontested there I thought would make for an easy spam post in other places to find other anarchists lol
I got a discord server linked in my bio if you would like to meet a group of people who all believe in this stuff, and I can help you find others if you want.
I am subscribed to a few anarchist places but most seem rather barren.
Lemmy had been the best fit i found online in general. But even here i find i am still often more radical the average.
It would definitely be interesting to know more People to debate these topics with. I am talking a look at that discord server.
Edit: cant find your bio, may you send me an Invite?
well, this will be a space you are likely to be far less radical than average in I can say that, and I checking out these sites for the first time and these forums have not impressed me. The more public anarchist spaces tend to not have much going on because so much energy goes towards dealing with trolls and such, so they can’t build mutual aid and such internally
I cant find you bio. Could you pm me an invite? Thanks.
Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism.
If you want this you should’ve just been born rich. Pretty shortsighted of you to be born without money.
At the end of the day, people are going to want shit like phones or cars or supplies for their hobby or whatever. How do you propose we divvy out those limited resources without assigning some kind of value to them?
community fridges are a good example of this working. I don’t need to propose anything
Yeah that’s really gonna help me stock up on, say, acrylic paint for my miniature painting hobby.
community paint & brushes for your bourgeois hobby
Bourgeois hobby fucking lol
fuck wages as a concept entirely I want to do things because they need to be done, because they help the people around me
Help yourself first - there’s nothing wrong with it.
you can’t help yourself without helping others, mutual aid is how the poor survive
There’s a reason airlines tell you to secure your own oxygen mask before helping others with theirs '. Being stable yourself puts you in a better position to be helpful.
and before that you make sure the other person is on the same page by making sure they help themselves first in case you get knocked out yourself, so you could say it starts with helping them
or maybe we could just describe it as building social structures that help everyone involved, you know mutual aid like ive been saying. You can do more together. I’m disabled, there is no amount of focusing on myself that will make me stable in this society.
I am done with this conversation. If anyone wants to focus on working with people to survive, I got links in my bio. If you think you can survive alone go somewhere else.
The example given actually relates to children.
Parents should put their own oxygen mask on before that of their children because you can help them if they pass out but if you pass out your child may pannick and not be able to save you.
Being a parent and often in charge i am very aware of the help yourself first to help others mentally because we survive on it.
However none if that is really against your main argument of mutual aid which i very much agree with.
The economy has formed our schools into molding people for work. I believe everything could be different within a single generation if we shift primarily education to prioritize respect for others and the environment, self-guided exploration and growth. Learning what different people need to flourish working together to build community.
I think you misunderstand me. I’m all for mutual aid. It’s just easier to provide aid to others when you’re less in need of it yourself.
you can’t help yourself without helping others
This is how modern economy works - you get your wage by providing something to someone else. But my point is, there’s no shame in doing this to support yourself as priority, rather than supporting other people - in other words you have right to do it for egoistic reasons
Give you the means to live, prosper, and grow, and the tools and resources to let you help others do the same? I can get on board with that.
Every time antiwork comes into my “all” feed I feel like I get a little dumber.
Your “wants” sounds nice, but let us not forget people work and get paid because someone else need it. Wages/salary what have you, is the abstract representation of how much you’ve helped someone/some company. So in my opinion, wages are one of the emergent mechanics born out of necessity to value someone’s help.
A post scarcity society like in star trek and the Orville could enable your vision. But for now, its all in fiction.
