"Silly me, how could I not realised that the real victims here are the men who have to live in fear of women who talk about their genuine fears of being killed."
The answer to “not all men” is indeed “enough men”.
The issue isn’t that it’s 100% of men that do a thing. It’s that it’s enough you have to plan for it to happen every time. Ah in that case you may as well just assume it’s all and be pleasantly surprised if you’re wrong.
Lemme try again. The same argument is not used (at least, not legitimately) to justify racism, because you do not have to actively take precautions to defend yourself from people of other races.
I’m sorry, what even is this argument?? The commenter above you is saying that women have enough proven experience of men being shitty to have to prepare for it in every interaction. Even if they know that it’s ‘not all men’ it’s enough that they have to assume it could be any single one.
The only way this could be comparable to racism is if people had legitimate reasons to mistrust other races, which is not the case. Racism is the result of exaggerated stories and mistrust being created about a community with whom the racist generally has no connection.
Most of the time women being wary of men doesn’t lead to misandry, it just leads to world-weariness and guardedness around men until we know we can trust them. But even if it did, misandry and misogyny are not equivalent. Misogyny is a prejudice which has been embedded in society for millennia and which has only begun to be deconstructed in the last century. Misandry is a response to this condition, but it is not structural, it’s the position held by a handful of women exhausted by their shitty experiences with shitty men.
It’s honestly a wonder that more women don’t viscerally hate every man in existence, and men should be thankful that we continue to go out and put ourselves out there despite the plethora of bad and downright dangerous things we’ve experienced. Knowing that men can do awful things and preparing for that possibility is just a survival tactic for remaining in the world.
It is misandry to generalize and discriminate against men because “all men are dangerous scumbags” or something.
Besides, it doesn’t help anyone, really, and fosters extra anxieties and aggression.
We absolutely need cultural shift that would help everyone (both women and men) to expose rapists and any sort of harassment. We need to eliminate any cultural acceptability of those actions that remain.
We do not need to propagate hate based on gender/sex.
Absolute majority of men are perfectly normal human beings, like absolute majority of black people aren’t criminals, or absolute majority of gays are not child molesters or whatever the stereotypes were. Besides, all of those traits are immutable.
i didn’t say misandry is equivalent to racism, i said the exact same argument is used to justify racism.
but there’s definitely a lot of overlap between prejudice based upon sex/gender vs prejudice based upon perceived race.
and rape culture isn’t really a thing, it’s not a culture… it’s a problem but that’s the wrong word.
there’s like, chinese culture and such… there’s no, like, People of the Rape… misogyny is an aspect of many cultures, but it’s not the culture itself and typically rape is extremely prohibited… and had the death penalty in most cultures throughout history…
misandry is an understandable response but, ultimately it’s not leading towards any solution…
let me just google that real quick:
oh wow! i had noooo idea what you meant by that until i googled using a whole sentence instead of keywords like an idiot… wow, never heard that term before you used…
yeah i know what is meant by it, and it’s a stupid term…
car culture is a culture around cars,
chinese culture is a culture around a people…
there is no culture around raping…
in most cultures, rape is seen as pretty bad.
“rape culture” is a misnomer, it’s a stupid term. It is an invalid term no matter how many websites define it.
People use arguments to justify everything. Sometimes they’re right, sometimes they’re wrong.
and this may be the dumbest string of words i’ve ever seen put together.
my point isn’t that they are both arguments, it’s that it’s the EXACT SAME argument, only substituting gender for race… and as such, equally as wrong.
but, i do agree that it’s pointless trying to talk to someone like you
Yes, literally everyone agrees that rape is bad. The problem is that in our culture, we have a bad habit of rationalizing what we do as not really rape. How many times have you heard someone ask what a woman was wearing, or why she was walking home at night instead of driving, or why she was alone at a bar, or why she didn’t fight back, or why she didn’t report sexual violence as soon as it happened? Why does nearly every woman have at least one experience with sexual violence? Why did we elect a guy who openly admitted to sexual assault as president? It’s almost like we have a culture around enabling and forgiving rape, in large part by rationalizing it as “not really” rape. I wonder if there’s a word for a culture that enables sexual violence.
That’s not how assumptions work though. You might be “pleasantly surprised”, then the guy realizes “wow, I super hated being treated like that just for being male” and wisely stays the fuck away.
Ask any woman, they’ll let you know that some guys take that “wow, I super hated being treated like that” and don’t wisely stay the fuck away. Someone who cannot empathize with the caution women have to show around strangers is probably not the best partner anyway.
The answer to “not all men” is indeed “enough men”.
The issue isn’t that it’s 100% of men that do a thing. It’s that it’s enough you have to plan for it to happen every time. Ah in that case you may as well just assume it’s all and be pleasantly surprised if you’re wrong.
the exact same argument is used to justify racism…
misandry is no better than misogyny
Lemme try again. The same argument is not used (at least, not legitimately) to justify racism, because you do not have to actively take precautions to defend yourself from people of other races.
I’m sorry, what even is this argument?? The commenter above you is saying that women have enough proven experience of men being shitty to have to prepare for it in every interaction. Even if they know that it’s ‘not all men’ it’s enough that they have to assume it could be any single one.
The only way this could be comparable to racism is if people had legitimate reasons to mistrust other races, which is not the case. Racism is the result of exaggerated stories and mistrust being created about a community with whom the racist generally has no connection.
Most of the time women being wary of men doesn’t lead to misandry, it just leads to world-weariness and guardedness around men until we know we can trust them. But even if it did, misandry and misogyny are not equivalent. Misogyny is a prejudice which has been embedded in society for millennia and which has only begun to be deconstructed in the last century. Misandry is a response to this condition, but it is not structural, it’s the position held by a handful of women exhausted by their shitty experiences with shitty men.
It’s honestly a wonder that more women don’t viscerally hate every man in existence, and men should be thankful that we continue to go out and put ourselves out there despite the plethora of bad and downright dangerous things we’ve experienced. Knowing that men can do awful things and preparing for that possibility is just a survival tactic for remaining in the world.
It’s not misandry to be wary around men. Rape culture is a thing. It is not equivalent to racism.
It is misandry to generalize and discriminate against men because “all men are dangerous scumbags” or something.
Besides, it doesn’t help anyone, really, and fosters extra anxieties and aggression.
We absolutely need cultural shift that would help everyone (both women and men) to expose rapists and any sort of harassment. We need to eliminate any cultural acceptability of those actions that remain.
We do not need to propagate hate based on gender/sex.
Absolute majority of men are perfectly normal human beings, like absolute majority of black people aren’t criminals, or absolute majority of gays are not child molesters or whatever the stereotypes were. Besides, all of those traits are immutable.
i didn’t say misandry is equivalent to racism, i said the exact same argument is used to justify racism.
but there’s definitely a lot of overlap between prejudice based upon sex/gender vs prejudice based upon perceived race.
and rape culture isn’t really a thing, it’s not a culture… it’s a problem but that’s the wrong word.
there’s like, chinese culture and such… there’s no, like, People of the Rape… misogyny is an aspect of many cultures, but it’s not the culture itself and typically rape is extremely prohibited… and had the death penalty in most cultures throughout history…
misandry is an understandable response but, ultimately it’s not leading towards any solution…
People use arguments to justify everything. Sometimes they’re right, sometimes they’re wrong. This is a stupid point.
If you can’t be bothered to so much as type “what is rape culture” into google, I’m done talking to you
let me just google that real quick:
oh wow! i had noooo idea what you meant by that until i googled using a whole sentence instead of keywords like an idiot… wow, never heard that term before you used…
yeah i know what is meant by it, and it’s a stupid term…
car culture is a culture around cars,
chinese culture is a culture around a people…
there is no culture around raping…
in most cultures, rape is seen as pretty bad.
“rape culture” is a misnomer, it’s a stupid term. It is an invalid term no matter how many websites define it.
and this may be the dumbest string of words i’ve ever seen put together.
my point isn’t that they are both arguments, it’s that it’s the EXACT SAME argument, only substituting gender for race… and as such, equally as wrong.
but, i do agree that it’s pointless trying to talk to someone like you
Yes, literally everyone agrees that rape is bad. The problem is that in our culture, we have a bad habit of rationalizing what we do as not really rape. How many times have you heard someone ask what a woman was wearing, or why she was walking home at night instead of driving, or why she was alone at a bar, or why she didn’t fight back, or why she didn’t report sexual violence as soon as it happened? Why does nearly every woman have at least one experience with sexual violence? Why did we elect a guy who openly admitted to sexual assault as president? It’s almost like we have a culture around enabling and forgiving rape, in large part by rationalizing it as “not really” rape. I wonder if there’s a word for a culture that enables sexual violence.
That’s not how assumptions work though. You might be “pleasantly surprised”, then the guy realizes “wow, I super hated being treated like that just for being male” and wisely stays the fuck away.
Ask any woman, they’ll let you know that some guys take that “wow, I super hated being treated like that” and don’t wisely stay the fuck away. Someone who cannot empathize with the caution women have to show around strangers is probably not the best partner anyway.