Apparently civility politics is back in style for pleading for sympathy for… [checks notes] people who fought to uphold one of the most brutal forms of an already brutal institution in defense of white supremacy.
It’s functionally the same logic as… [check notes] American civilians deserving to die in 9/11 for being complicit in American imperialism. Would asking Bin Laden not to attack the WTC count as “civility politics”?
“Disrespecting the graves of soldiers who literally fought and died in a war for slavery is the exact same thing as killing civilians in a terrorist attack because a rich Saudi kid was assmad that infidels were on holy land in the early 90s”
10/10
Take a few minutes to hear from a man who fought in the Civil War as a 16 year old boy for the 26th Virginia Cavalry.
He wasn’t old enough or educated enough to even realize slavery was one of the causes of the war. At the end of the video he blames the wealthy/politicians for getting them into it, and celebrates the end of slavery.
Celebrating the confederacy is wrong, but I also think museum-like stuff and graveyards are harmless and should be respected. First of all, not everyone who served had much of a choice. Many were expected to serve on one side or the other merely because of where they lived. This is true of much of history. Second, they’re dead. It’s over for these specific people. They’re not a current problem. It’s just disrespectful no matter who it is.
I am NOT defending anything confederate, but I know that nuance is lost on most people.
I broadly agree, but would point out that the huge number of statues erected during the civil rights era, celebrating people that led a traitorous war to defend slavery have little to no historical value, and were put in place to send a message echoing what those confederate leaders fought for.
We teach about the Nazis without celebrating them - I don’t see why the Confederates should be any different.
I don’t see any statues in this photo. Nobody here is talking about celebrating the Confederate soldiers, only suggesting that their graves shouldn’t be pissed on.
If you don’t think statues are covered under the umbrella of “museum-like stuff” and aren’t relevant to a conversation about what public relics of the Confederacy should be preserved, that’s a you issue, my guy.
Maybe you missed the point of my comment. I agree with you that Confederate statues erected during the civil rights movement are an affront to everything we stand for as a nation. I agree that they should be torn down wherever they exist.
I also don’t understand what any of that has to do with a photo of unmarked Confederate graves. Or how it would in any way justify pissing on them.
Yeah that’ll teach those long-dead conscripts!
Yeah, fuck 'em.
What do you call someone ‘brave’ enough to die for treasonous slaver scum, but not brave enough to die against treasonous slaver scum?
Slaver scum.
Tens of thousands of men from the South volunteered to help their actual country’s army. Many more resisted in other ways, took up arms as partisans, or simply left traitor-controlled areas. I have no more sympathy for conscripts of the CSA than I do for conscripts of Nazi Germany. Were they inherently terrible people? No, probably not. But they made a choice that was, ultimately, cowardly and evil, and they deserve no asspats on that account.
Would you include literal child soldiers who had no idea slavery was a cause of the war in that “slaver scum” category?
If you watch that video, you can hear from someone who fought in the 26th Virginia Cavalry. Towards the end of the video, he celebrates the end of slavery, and blames the politicians for bringing them into the war. Many of the folks buried in these cemeteries were uneducated, rural children who only knew they were “defending their homeland from invasion”.
Do we really need to piss on their graves?
Would you include literal child soldiers who had no idea slavery was a cause of the war in that “slaver scum” category?
Literal children? No, because children are generally accepted to have reduced independent moral agency for a variety of reasons.
Many of the folks buried in these cemeteries were uneducated, rural children who only knew they were “defending their homeland from invasion”.
My guy, that Lost Causer myth hasn’t been accepted in historical academia since the 70s. There was broad understanding and acceptance on the Confederate side, amongst the rank and file, that the war was being fought for slavery and white supremacy. You wanna roll out John Smith from Nowhere, Atlanta, and say he’s a very special boy who didn’t understand what was going on? Sure, whatever makes you feel better. I’m sure there were a couple of innocents in the Wehrmacht and the SS as well who were simply too dumb to understand what was constantly and loudly repeated by both sides of the conflict. But unless you want me to single out his grave to be spared, I don’t really know what relevance your saintedly ignorant theoretical individual has to the discussion.
Only on Lemmy could “pissing on the graves of child soldiers isn’t cool” be a controversial take.
“Don’t piss on Wehrmacht graves! You might hit someone who was innocent!”
Exactly. One in every six Wehrmacht troops fighting on D-Day was a non-German, many of which were prisoners who’d been forced to fight for the Nazis. You might actually be pissing on the grave of a Korean POW who’d been shipped to the German frontlines by their Japanese captors.
Source: https://militaryhistorynow.com/2014/06/02/germanys-foreign-volunteers-helped-man-the-atlantic-wall/
“In one more memorable encounter, members of the American 101st Airborne stumbled upon a group of surrendering Asiatic troops in German uniforms. Despite repeated attempts, Allied interrogators were unable to communicate with their curious Wehrmacht prisoners. Only later was it discovered that the soldiers originally hailed from Korea and had absolutely no interest in fighting for the Third Reich. How they ended up in German uniform is one of the Second World War’s most outlandish sagas.”
