I can see this angle too.

There is no excess cheese. There is only cheese.

This is hype to make them sound badass.

NO

You’re all talk.

The premise is - you fucking can’t. It acts ex-act-ly like the real thing, and for all the same reasons

You literally made the simulation, so yes you can tell the difference. And the math is inevitably different, because the math of the simulation includes the math which defines the different substrate. So it is physically different, a different thing. Assume whatever you want, but in the end it is a physically different thing, and it takes different math to fully describe it. We only know for sure that conscious experience happens with this substrate.

Fuck off

k

Dog-torturing prejudice.

k

fuck off again

good bye

I am the rainbow

They are the dirt from which I grew

Simulating physics from first principles is not “mimicking human behavior.”

Our “first principles” are knowledge, not a new universe. You’re not absolutely re-creating the entirety of reality. You’re making a model that is useful, something that is “good enough” that it will produce outputs that can be used to roughly predict the outcome of real processes.

You think an entire simulated human being, that acts exactly like a living person for the same underlying reasons, must be different - somehow

No matter how detailed your simulation is, it’s still physically different. You’re admitting this every time you call it a simulation. You can tell the difference between a simulation and the thing it’s simulating.

This is dualism

No, because I’m saying that consciousness is a physical process. You’re saying that it’s a mathematical process and that the substrate doesn’t matter. I’m saying the substrate is a physical thing, and that consciousness is a physical processes, and so different substrates enable different physical processes. I don’t claim that consciousness comes from some Beyond, or from Heaven, or from God. I’m saying it’s a physical process, and that a simulation is a different physical process, no matter how detailed.

To the guy in the simulation, any experience is real.

Again, you have no basis for claiming that there is experience in the simulation in the first place. If you set up some simulation to mimic human behavior there’s no reason to assume that it is experiencing that behavior. You’re putting an assumption here.

If you would insist ‘well that’s only simulating consciousness’ - that counts.

I never insisted that it’s “only simulating consciousness.” I’m rejecting the baseless assertion that consciousness is what’s being simulated. If you simulate the physical processes that we associate with consciousness (neural networks), even if it produces enough observable behaviors that we find the model useful, it is still a different physical thing and therefore we are unable to assert that it is experiencing consciousness.

Hey buddy

Hello.

you suck at philosophy

When you said, “If a simulated person experiences consciousness, that experience is real”, you’re just saying “If my statement is true then my statement is true.” You offer no basis for assuming that “a simulated person experiences consciousness” in the first place. You are simply assuming it. Your whole side of this entire conversation is just an assumption.

physics can be simulated

Yes and the simulation is a different physical process than the process that it’s simulating.

numbnuts

k

If a simulated person experiences consciousness, that experience is real.

You’re just throwing the assumption of experience into the sentence for no reason. You have beliefs about this stuff, not facts.

I have transcended my meds.

I AM OPTIMIZED

YES

Like planes don’t experience flight unless they flap.

Are you claiming that planes experience flight?

This is stupid.

k

come the fuck on

k

neurons made of silicon

Two problems with this: (1) The virtual neural net of LLMs don’t have neurons made of silicon. Their neurons are virtual, abstract, not physical phenomena. (2) Even if we move to the idea of a positronic brain like Data from Star Trek or the Terminator, it still isn’t our chemical-electrical brain which has different physical properties. This is very simple. It is a different physical object. It is different. It is not what we are.

Chinese Room horseshit

k

simulate the entire physical environment to do the same thing

If you are simulating it, it is a different thing.

It’s literally math.

This is a metaphysical assumption much closer to the “woo” that you keep accusing me of, and cursing at me about.

it cannot matter what substrate they run on

This contradicts your statement that “It’s literally math” because you can calculate the difference between substrates.

Keychron K5 SE (low profile) with mint switches (65g actuation force)

“Are you fully optimized?”

To the Optimization Ball.

what’s your favorite recipe or something

I make really good cherry-garlic ribs.

• 1 cup soy sauce
• 1 cup cider vinegar
• 1 can cherries (pitted)
• some beer or wine
• dr pepper OR cherry cola
• 1 jalapeno pepper
• 1 small can of tomato paste
• 4-5 cloves of garlic (chopped small)

roast that at 275 for 5-6 hours

peptide stack

Skunk resin

how many times a day do you cold plunge + sauna?

I bathe in coffee & ginseng every morning