Unpopular opinion: if you require disenfranchised voters to stave off a fascist dictatorship then you’re already a failed state and are only kicking the can down the road.
There are probably a lot of people you love who require healthcare who are depending on that can being kicked further down the road until you have an alternative.
I personally think we can support Palestine without throwing our trans and gay populations, our immigrants, and our leftists to the wolves.
Honestly not sure the situation for immigrants is that much better under Biden. Especially with the immigration bill from earlier in the year they tried to pass and the It Could Happen Here episodes about the border conditions under Biden. At least during Trump’s term there were news reports and people were more active giving aid.
Really? Deporting adults and keeping their children in ICE detention centers only to physically and sexually abuse them is better? Trump was a monster to immigrants. We had nations around the world criticizing the crisis and crimes against humanity at our border.
https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/ice-detention-center-says-its-not-responsible
I’m glad Biden ended family separation and has increased electronic monitoring over detention. Unfortunately, tons of people are still in abusive privately run immigration prisons. Many are dying during border crossings. Plenty of kids who immigrated are laboring in meat packing plants.
Biden continues many of Trump’s awful policies, but because he does it in a quieter, more respectable tone he receives less backlash. The lack of support people get from us is stark and the abolish ICE movement has withering away.
Both these situations are bad. I think my point is less about the election and more that we collectively should do something about these conditions. Mutual aid, volunteer, harass a representative, just something.
You’re forgetting about the year and a half long open border policy after Biden repealed Title 42, while pressing Congress to do their job and enact immigration reform. The only reason he restricted immigration was after receiving pressure from sanctuary cities. The president shouldn’t be enacting Executive Orders to control the border. That is a direct result of the failure of Congress.
Same thing happened to Obama. The border crisis is a manufactured thing by Republicans.
That’s the thing. We aren’t getting an alternative. We’re getting fascism. Whether we slowly slide into it with the Democrats or speed run it with the Republicans we will have to deal with the issue.
obviously a slow slide gives people time to leave and it offers more chances for the fascist factions to cannibalize each other. From a strategic perspective you never go with the quick option unless you think you can win the fight quickly.
then make do with what you’ve got
No. This isn’t what we have, this is what the wealthy elite have. We’re not making do, we’re drowning. We’ve been drowning. But everyone ignored the warnings so here we are.
humans have been making do with much less than what you have for hundreds of thousands of years. making do also does not necessarily exclude political action
That’s right up there with, “better clean that plate, there’s starving kids in China!”
It’s that very history you mention that tells me it’s time to stop supporting weak Democrats. Either we get someone strong enough to pull us back from the abyss or we’re already fucked. This story has played out time and again from the Roman Empire to Post Colonial Africa. The compromise guy is put in charge and the authoritarian runs him over.
Some people seem way too okay with there being two bad choices for president.
Others seem way too resistent to any attempt to make one of those choices not bad.
There’s a difference between being okay with something and begrudgingly working with circumstances while simultaneously criticizing people who give up because things aren’t perfect.
I’m not okay with Biden being the best candidate, but that doesn’t make abstention a viable voting strategy.
If there’s a plan for a better outcome I can white knuckle my way through a lot of situations in life. Sure, shit happens and sometimes we just gotta deal with it but if I feel like this isn’t something we’re going to be able to avoid in the future I want to opt out entirely. Think of a camping trip where the tent is leaking. If we’re not planning on replacing the tent I don’t want to go camping again.
So with Biden sure I can white knuckle through it if I think 2028 primaries are going to produce someone better but they won’t. You can blame “young voters” if you want. Personally I point to the fact that nobody is apologizing for voting for Biden in the 2020 primaries. If they’re not apologizing that means they don’t see how their decisions negatively impacted me or don’t see a problem with negatively impacting me so they’re going to repeat the behavior.
I’m not interested in white knuckling through that. People are free to keep camping with a leaky tent I won’t stop them but I won’t be participating any more than I can control.
Please don’t respond with some kind of counter comparative example or taking my made up comparison to some kind of scientific degree. It’s just a conceptual tool for the purposes of the conversation. Telling me it doesn’t apply isn’t going to change the way I view the situation or my decisions.
If I get the sense that 2028 would somehow be better I’d reconsider.
Even though you preemptively asked people not to provide a counterpoint, I feel the need to highlight a problem with your analogy that you seen to already be aware of.
Your position of “I don’t want to go camping anymore” is a fantasy. The only way to achieve that is to emigrate to another country. The real situation is: you’re going to sleep outside. Do you want a leaky tent or a ragged old tarp? Those are your only two choices. If you do not make a choice, then you are leaving the choice up to everyone else.
If you’re okay with that, then sobeit. It is your right to opt out of participating in the political process, but that doesn’t change which tent you’re going to end up sleeping in. If you’re an American, you’re along for the ride whether you like it or not. Your choice to opt out does not change the outcome, it merely cedes control to everyone else.
I tend to agree with your main point though. I’m pretty exhausted with everyone around me selecting the same deteriorated tents that we’ve been using for the last 50 years because “that’s the only way enough people will select it over the moldy tarp” instead of considering a new one that actually works, or at least has fewer leaks.
Telling me it doesn’t apply isn’t going to change the way I view the situation or my decisions.
That’s fine. Enjoy our camping trip.
Begrudgingly working with circumstances and giving up because things aren’t perfect can easily be the same thing. That criticism has got to come with some cognitive dissonance.
What the fuck are you talking about?
“giving up” takes many forms.
Well yeah, but that’s a pretty broad spectrum. Giving up by not participating at all is a higher degree of apathy than “giving up” by realistically evaluating your situation and recognizing that participating in a deeply flawed system will still have a chance of moving the needle in the direction you want it to go, or at least stopping it from moving the other direction.
by realistically evaluating your situation
Your only acceptable measure of that is if I vote for Biden which makes me unable to realistically evaluate my situation by definition. There’s no point in making this argument. We aren’t going to see things the same way. One of us has to compromise. If you can’t see it’s moderates and liberals turn to make some serious and material compromises leftwards then you never will.
No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. The situation is that you will realistically have two choices for president. Voting for anything other than one of those two choices is effectively pointless as it will have no impact on the outcome except to withhold a vote from one of the two candidates that are going to win.
Anything else that you choose is symbolic at best but effectively meaningless.
Young Democrats face Gaza blowback as they try to mobilize students for Biden
Perhaps instead of trying to mobilize students to support an active genocider, they can go fuck themselves instead?
It’s ok, Trump is on deck to take over as soon as you let him. That’s what you want, right?
‘What do you mean by “Why do you keep beating that straw man to death?”’
Oh I didn’t realize you were a lemmy.ml account. I should have just blocked you to begin with.
You won’t be missed
I guess the people pushing this don’t understand elections because Russia hasn’t had real ones in so long? Or is it just the new wave of idealistic anti intellectualism? ‘I have a moral cause so I don’t need to meaningfully interact with reality!’
Basically you’re talking to a wall with these people
Here’s a take… it would be infinitely worse under the GOP. At least Biden and Blinken have attempted to cool tensions and persuade Bibi to stop. They have, at a minimum, delayed some violence.
Persuade Netanyahu to stop by sending him weapons unconditionally and vetoing ceasefire at the UN?
Fantasy land.
