I’m starting to think “affordability” is just weasely shit for little administrative fixes.
I want to start hearing about massive trust busting and I want to hear talk about the income crisis and dismantling all the tools and methods that employers bring to bear to drive wages down.
In other words, I want to hear some language that is undeniably leftist about changing the structure of the economy, not bland phrases for tinkering around the edges.
The majority of Americans support most progressive goals. Even conservatives. Once you call it socialism they are against it because indoctrination is hard to shake.
How do you figure? People in general don’t listen to well thought out arguments, they’re mostly driven by pithy quips, buzzwords, and emotional arguments. And positioning ourselves on the defense just makes us look weak, and weakness is a poor emotional argument.
Progressive, socialist policies are extremely popular. Progressive, socialist terminology is extremely unpopular. What we actually need is a full-throated promotion of socialist policy without hobbling ourselves by using socialist language. Keep that shit in the cadre, meet the proletariat where they actually are.
If someone can correctly identify actual socialist policies as socialist, they’re probably already a socialist, so there’s nothing to defend. You can just innocently say “Oh is it? Huh, maybe those socialists are onto something then”.
The whole reason socialist terminology is poisoned is because the people have been told that “socialism” means the government owning everything, forcing you to live in commie blocks, and taking all your money to give to party insiders and freeloaders.
In either case, promoting the policies without the terminology is still the best course of action. The socialists will understand what you’re getting at, the masses will get to consider the policies without the baggage of propaganda.
You’re not a robot, you aren’t forced into the defensive by questions. Conversations are free response, you aren’t forced to follow a logical script. Logic is for coming to conclusions, not sharing them. That’s the job of rhetoric, and rhetoric relies on directing the conversation, not being directed. Persuasion is more important than reason here.
However, I can’t help notice the rise of independent media is allowing people to have opinions that haven’t been able to hold before. The anti-genocidal anti-zionism we see is completely transmitted by non-corporate mainstream outlets. Would Mamdami have been possible if everyone only watched CNN and the New York Times and not Hasan Piker or Democracy Now? I don’t think so.
So maybe it depends on the venue, but until we can make openly leftist arguments on mainstream media, we’re going to be fighting uphill.
And it’s already started with anti-Israel sentiment; Al-Sayed was on some cable show openly calling Israeli’s actions genocide–absolutely unthikable a few months ago.
Sure, but Bernie is also not in the centrist camp of the party with folks like Chuck Schumer or Hakeem Jeffries, so it doesn’t really contradict what they said.
For those reading these threads where there’s always a few doomer anti-hope comments: I urge you to call out and block these entirely unhelpful commenters. If you notice, those asking us to abandon hope, even though there is reason for it, do not pair any “criticism” with a call to action. In cases where that happens, that is helpful and not what I’m calling out. Regardless of why doomers are spreading gloom or what they think that will accomplish, paying them any attention can only ever lead to inaction, mental anguish, and helping fascist ideas gain traction across the world. Perhaps if enough of us block these users, they’ll start to feel like their anti-hope messaging campaigns are futile.
Do NOT lose hope. For Americans: contact your state representatives, get active with progressive political organizations, and do everything you can to affect change.
I would be cautious not to shut out opportunities to tell people there is a way to work for something better, but yes, particularly on the activism side, get busy participating with local progressive groups. We may not all have the money to buy our own politician, but working together a few hours and some helpful hands can go a long way.
I have him tagged as “echo chamber liberal.” I don’t remember the interaction that lead to that tag but I have seen him pop up several times since and every time he goes ahead and confirms it for me.
Way to stand up for the doomers. It “proves you right” that I’m all for an echo chamber even when I specifically say that criticism with a call to action is good. So we see which side you’re on. Thanks for confirmation of my tag for you also.
Doomers are an important part of reality. Bots and trolls not so much. It’s ok to be a doomer a lot of the time it’s a sober look at shit that people don’t have the will or capacity to see. I’ve been called a doomer so much that I bristle at the term because it’s a coping pajorative.
And who is the judge and jury? You? The climate crisis is comming for everyone. And that should make you more fucking afraid than anything. And you know what because of humanity’s stupidity and in action there is nothing we can do to stop it now, hell, we can barely even slow it down at this point. And dem centrists are a click away from fascists. And America has a tendency to scew fascist and racist even when Dems are in power.
I’ve been engaged for longer than you’ve been alive. Sometimes reality can suck the motivation out of you because it’s so daunting but it’s better to dispel one lie than gain a thousand truths. And that’s the problem with reality is that it’s beautiful and horrifying and you must take them both or you tilt at dreams.
Edit: And corpo dems enable the pedophile king. Because they all belong to the meta party of money not democracy. At time comes for us all! And there’s nothing anyone can do about it. Ha!
We cant just “have hope”. We have to do something about it to get it to exist. Hope is often used as an excuse to wait for the status quo to solve our problems with no effort and we are way past that. No one is coming to help any of us. Not the Democratic partyt leadership for sure, unless we MAKE them. The time for this sort of anger was really before the midterm, but now is second best.
I think the problem with our progressivism is its integrated passivity. It refuses to give itself permission to act on its own to forcefully to establish the future it wants. We beg and implre. We hold signs. We write letters and emails to those who have money in their pockets paid by our enemies. We try to shame the shameless, which only makes conservatives learn to be even more shameless. We count on some “decent people” to eventually appear and take charge somehow.
While I agree, I’m not really sure how feasible that is in the current makeup? You’re talking about changes that need at least a two thirds majority are you not?
I said I want to start hearing about It. The Dem Party desperately needs to at least re-brand. We’re not going to get the reforms we need without arguing for them.
While I agree, I also know that is going to turn into “all they’ve done is talk about it” come the next election cycle.
Dems taking the majority has been great for the country short term, but I feel like it’s going to hurt the country in the mid-term as they are only going to be able to reel back the insanity, and not actually institute any “real” changes to point at two years from now.
I’m starting to think “affordability” is just weasely shit for little administrative fixes.
I want to start hearing about massive trust busting and I want to hear talk about the income crisis and dismantling all the tools and methods that employers bring to bear to drive wages down.
In other words, I want to hear some language that is undeniably leftist about changing the structure of the economy, not bland phrases for tinkering around the edges.
Centrists only use that word because it polls well. They stole it from Mamdami even though they hate him.
We have to get ahead and start actively making a case for socialism, or Republicans will keep having an edge in public debates.
The majority of Americans support most progressive goals. Even conservatives. Once you call it socialism they are against it because indoctrination is hard to shake.
Which is exactly why we need a full-throated defense of socialism.
How do you figure? People in general don’t listen to well thought out arguments, they’re mostly driven by pithy quips, buzzwords, and emotional arguments. And positioning ourselves on the defense just makes us look weak, and weakness is a poor emotional argument.
Progressive, socialist policies are extremely popular. Progressive, socialist terminology is extremely unpopular. What we actually need is a full-throated promotion of socialist policy without hobbling ourselves by using socialist language. Keep that shit in the cadre, meet the proletariat where they actually are.
How do you defend yourself against the true claim that your socialist policies are socialist? At some point, you have to stand your ground, no?
Anyway, the larger problem is the entire media landscape is hostile, which YouTube and podcasts are helping with.
If someone can correctly identify actual socialist policies as socialist, they’re probably already a socialist, so there’s nothing to defend. You can just innocently say “Oh is it? Huh, maybe those socialists are onto something then”.
The whole reason socialist terminology is poisoned is because the people have been told that “socialism” means the government owning everything, forcing you to live in commie blocks, and taking all your money to give to party insiders and freeloaders.
In either case, promoting the policies without the terminology is still the best course of action. The socialists will understand what you’re getting at, the masses will get to consider the policies without the baggage of propaganda.
You’re not a robot, you aren’t forced into the defensive by questions. Conversations are free response, you aren’t forced to follow a logical script. Logic is for coming to conclusions, not sharing them. That’s the job of rhetoric, and rhetoric relies on directing the conversation, not being directed. Persuasion is more important than reason here.
I guess.
However, I can’t help notice the rise of independent media is allowing people to have opinions that haven’t been able to hold before. The anti-genocidal anti-zionism we see is completely transmitted by non-corporate mainstream outlets. Would Mamdami have been possible if everyone only watched CNN and the New York Times and not Hasan Piker or Democracy Now? I don’t think so.
So maybe it depends on the venue, but until we can make openly leftist arguments on mainstream media, we’re going to be fighting uphill.
And it’s already started with anti-Israel sentiment; Al-Sayed was on some cable show openly calling Israeli’s actions genocide–absolutely unthikable a few months ago.
Bernie has been discussing and proposing affordability legislation long before Zohran was a politician.
For example -Consumer Affordability and Responsibility Enhancement (CARE) Act
Prescription Drug Affordability Act of 2015
College for all plan
Sure, but Bernie is also not in the centrist camp of the party with folks like Chuck Schumer or Hakeem Jeffries, so it doesn’t really contradict what they said.
But…. Blue wave!?
For those reading these threads where there’s always a few doomer anti-hope comments: I urge you to call out and block these entirely unhelpful commenters. If you notice, those asking us to abandon hope, even though there is reason for it, do not pair any “criticism” with a call to action. In cases where that happens, that is helpful and not what I’m calling out. Regardless of why doomers are spreading gloom or what they think that will accomplish, paying them any attention can only ever lead to inaction, mental anguish, and helping fascist ideas gain traction across the world. Perhaps if enough of us block these users, they’ll start to feel like their anti-hope messaging campaigns are futile.
Do NOT lose hope. For Americans: contact your state representatives, get active with progressive political organizations, and do everything you can to affect change.
I would be cautious not to shut out opportunities to tell people there is a way to work for something better, but yes, particularly on the activism side, get busy participating with local progressive groups. We may not all have the money to buy our own politician, but working together a few hours and some helpful hands can go a long way.
It’s definitely started to feel like the doomers aren’t really here for dialog though.
I have him tagged as “echo chamber liberal.” I don’t remember the interaction that lead to that tag but I have seen him pop up several times since and every time he goes ahead and confirms it for me.
Way to stand up for the doomers. It “proves you right” that I’m all for an echo chamber even when I specifically say that criticism with a call to action is good. So we see which side you’re on. Thanks for confirmation of my tag for you also.
Doomers are an important part of reality. Bots and trolls not so much. It’s ok to be a doomer a lot of the time it’s a sober look at shit that people don’t have the will or capacity to see. I’ve been called a doomer so much that I bristle at the term because it’s a coping pajorative.
I disagree. Critics are important. Encouraging others to lose hope is a terrible and useless thing to do.
And who is the judge and jury? You? The climate crisis is comming for everyone. And that should make you more fucking afraid than anything. And you know what because of humanity’s stupidity and in action there is nothing we can do to stop it now, hell, we can barely even slow it down at this point. And dem centrists are a click away from fascists. And America has a tendency to scew fascist and racist even when Dems are in power.
I’ve been engaged for longer than you’ve been alive. Sometimes reality can suck the motivation out of you because it’s so daunting but it’s better to dispel one lie than gain a thousand truths. And that’s the problem with reality is that it’s beautiful and horrifying and you must take them both or you tilt at dreams.
Edit: And corpo dems enable the pedophile king. Because they all belong to the meta party of money not democracy. At time comes for us all! And there’s nothing anyone can do about it. Ha!
The audacity of telling me you have me tagged and not telling me what it is.
We cant just “have hope”. We have to do something about it to get it to exist. Hope is often used as an excuse to wait for the status quo to solve our problems with no effort and we are way past that. No one is coming to help any of us. Not the Democratic partyt leadership for sure, unless we MAKE them. The time for this sort of anger was really before the midterm, but now is second best.
I think the problem with our progressivism is its integrated passivity. It refuses to give itself permission to act on its own to forcefully to establish the future it wants. We beg and implre. We hold signs. We write letters and emails to those who have money in their pockets paid by our enemies. We try to shame the shameless, which only makes conservatives learn to be even more shameless. We count on some “decent people” to eventually appear and take charge somehow.
While I agree, I’m not really sure how feasible that is in the current makeup? You’re talking about changes that need at least a two thirds majority are you not?
I said I want to start hearing about It. The Dem Party desperately needs to at least re-brand. We’re not going to get the reforms we need without arguing for them.
While I agree, I also know that is going to turn into “all they’ve done is talk about it” come the next election cycle.
Dems taking the majority has been great for the country short term, but I feel like it’s going to hurt the country in the mid-term as they are only going to be able to reel back the insanity, and not actually institute any “real” changes to point at two years from now.
Compare that to the alternative–we don’t propose a long-term goal and just make short-term changes that are barely noticeable and easily reversed.
Lol. Good luck with that.
Yas, preach