I’m looking for specific suggestions of what I can do to find a group that I can join for the purpose of building a real revolution inside the USA. I’m trying and finding it very difficult. The closest was PSL but honestly my local branch seems kind of limp. That and I’m not academically inclined enough to get through Capital.
Coming to this thread because it’s a lot of what I was trying to say with the hypothetical, and you seem to agree with it here. Do you literally think it’s impossible to organize without reading Capital? If I can manage to read this one book (with no help from others), then everything will be explained and I’ll be able to organize effectively?
You do need to be willing to learn, but unlike what the TrollAccount is telling you, reading Capital is not a prerequisite. Understanding the basics to the extent that you can correctly explain them to others will be a major benefit, yes, but you do not have to have to have read Capital all the way through as some minimum bar where not having done it yet is preventing you from connecting and working with others. The more you know, the better off you’ll be, but whatever level you are at, that should not stop you from getting organized. Groups that teach and learn theory in addition to doing real world praxis are the best anyway. You do definitely need to be open and willing to do difficult things, and starting off with a refusal to read a foundational text makes it seem like you aren’t ready to do hard work when confronted with it, which I think might be where TrollAccount is coming from. But you still should do what you can, even if you aren’t able at this point to read a genuinely long and difficult text. And given what you said in your post, it sounds like you have been trying to start doing what you can, which is good and commendable. But don’t preemptively cut yourself off from something (like reading foundational text) because it sounds like difficult work, the whole point is that you have to be willing to do difficult work.
Half of what this other user is telling you is very true, but the other half shouldn’t be taken to heart. Another example being where they said “It sucks and is hard and feels bad.” It is hard, that is undeniably true. It can suck at times, it probably will in some ways, but in other ways it can and will be extremely rewarding. It does not feel bad, though. Living under capitalism feels bad in general, but getting organized and doing real work actually feels quite good! Feeling good shouldn’t be your primary motivation of course, but it should not come as a surprise that working together with other human beings towards a shared goal would feel good to any member of a social species.
Yeah, the troll is making a lot of assumptions about where I’m at. I tried to read Capital multiple times and have failed each time. And I recognize that theory should be an important aspect for any leftist movement that wants a chance at success. My bigger point in that argument is that any movement that claims to be for all people needs to be willing to build community and coalition with all people, even if they’re completely ignorant of theory (which I am not).
From your perspective it’s an arbitrary and meaningless roadblock, but from the perspective of groups you’re trying to get involved with it’s a fundamental cornerstone to developing an understanding you share with the group.
That is necessary for the group because of a bunch of reasons, they might be interested in making sure you grasp the idea of not wasting energy on the lumpen or upholding the mass line for example. They might need to make sure their members can stand up to the most basic scrutiny possible before turning them loose on the public. They might gain critical understanding about you as a person that helps them trust you or at least not view you as an infiltrator. Heck, they might just see you as a comrade worth developing.
That’s why I suggested multiple times that you stop trying to join communist groups. Anarchists and electoralists will gladly put you to work to accomplish their ends regardless of your understanding.
Based on other things you’ve said, a better reaction would be to offer resources that can help me understand some of the deeper concepts. That would show you have a real movement you’re working with and a real interest in helping people. Otherwise it just seems like your motivation comes from a mindset of superiority.
This is the first time you’ve said that the “Stop.” was specifically about joining Communist orgs.
The mention of joining an anarchist or electoralist org doesn’t actually answer the question I had. Obviously electoralism is inherently not revolutionary. And I know that anarchists exist, the question was about how to find people I can organize with.
Those are 2 funny things (lumpen and mass line) to bring up in this conversation. Given that the person who pioneered the latter disagreed (to a degree) with the former and also likely didn’t read Capital before leading a successful revolution. Also one of the most powerful leftist movements in the USA actually organized around the lumpen (Black Panthers).
You’re unwilling to engage with a foundational communist text that has infinity translations into every language in common parlance, readily available audiobooks, prerecorded reading groups in every format imaginable and actual real time reading groups on the instance you’re posting this thread in.
What resource can I possibly offer you when you describe yourself as unwilling to avail yourself of those around you?
I get it, reading a bunch of old stuff sucks but you’re talking about getting into groups that are trying their god damnedest to not hand the gospel down to you from a pulpit but to help you learn it for yourself. At some point if you wanna be a deacon you gotta crack the good book, right?
You’re making me reiterate the first point from my previous comment. Why would you assume I know about all those resources? You could’ve just said, “I think Capital is a very important read, especially for explicitly Communist groups. Here’s some resources that could help you get through it.” And then it wouldn’t have turned into an argument. The way you currently talk about this stuff is damaging to your movement. You’re making a lot of bad faith assumptions about who I am and what I think, and using those assumptions to tell me to fuck off. That was my main contention in the first place, you’re never going to build anything useful if you can’t meaningfully engage with stupid people. What you’re doing now is anti-organizing.
If you wanted to buy a chiefs knife what would you do?
Ideally, I’d talk to a chef I respect for recommendations of what makes a good knife or good sources to get one.
Okay, so now you can’t say I’m making an assumption that you didn’t even try because you just told me directly you would seek out guidance and information if you wanted to do something.
Apologies for the leading question but from the way the conversation was going it sounded like you were gonna try and claim I shouldn’t expect you to do any web searches or anything when you seem perfectly capable so I felt the need to get it all in writing. Because I’m not engaging with you in bad faith, as you claimed, I’m engaging with you on and in your terms.
It’s, again - in clear opposition to your accusation that I’m “anti-organizing”, fine if you don’t want to do the homework. As I have stated many times before, you can find an anarchist or electoralist group that will put you to work. That is fine.
Just because I seek out real world guidance or do web searches doesn’t mean I successfully find the information that will actually help me. Especially given our current material conditions with regards to everyone’s struggle to maintain a decent standard of living and the continual enshittification of the internet including the search engines. So I tried seeking out guidance here and the main thing you had to say about that was “Stop.” And then told me to go organize with someone else.
What are you doing to help your movement grow?