Hello everyone! I was wondering what modern day communists think about current China because I have heard many different and conflicting opinions by people who should theoretically be on the same side of the political spectrum. Thanks in advance!
China is a beacon of light for most of the world, a story of success by their own merit. Regardless of your political tendencies, one cannot simply not acknowledge the tremendous development they have achieved in such a massive country in such short time.
The USSR before was similar, then Khrushchev happened.
The USSR comitted many mistakes that China has learnt from, for one they do not get caught subsidizing weak allies that end up being a burden instead of a shoulder to lean on.
They had heart. Something I (and for instance Palestinians) still don’t know whether it’s applicable to the post Mao PRC.
I don’t think it can quite be reduced to “heart”, but certainly I’d agree the USSR was trying to help in the ways they could think of to do so and didn’t have a reference on it to guide them. The way I see it, the CPC is more cautious and guarded with international policy, but this is to be expected as a reaction to the conditions that followed the collapse of the USSR. Not only was it imperative that they not become USSR collapse 2.0, they were also now working in a world that had far less international communist support.
Like it’s easy to say they morally should be on the front lines of support for Palestine, for example, but what that looks like as long-term strategy across a decades view of planning is a more complicated question. It is probably more sustainable for them to help ensure that Iran is a pillar of anti-imperialist resistance in the region than to try to intervene more directly. Iran is capable of doing a debasing process in the region that China can’t do in the same way. Iran is capable of doing material solidarity with like-minded regional forces that China can’t do in the same way.
I guess what I’m trying to get at is, it is probably more insightful for us to ask: Why is China doing things the way that they are? Rather than, why aren’t they doing everything we’d like.
Even in Mao-era China, it had dog-shit foreign policy and was relatively non-interventionist besides helping with the Korean War on its border. The Sino-soviet split was broadly on the lines of opposing the USSR’s “social-imperialism”, I.e. their interventionist foreign policy and dictating of who gets revolutions and support for revolutions, and how their post-revolutionary government will look and function. China and the USSR had a number of border skirmishes because of this, and Mao-era China resented Stalin’s government for telling both China and Korea they would be getting no support in their revolutions in order to kow tow to the west.
I avoided deliberately to talk about their relationship because it’s complicated.
I don’t think so honestly, ultimately their “selfless” mistakes caused one of the worst tragedies of the century in the dismantlement of the USSR and all that followed…
What may seem as selfish from China may ultimately be the best in the long run. At some point we have to liberate ourselves and be strong in our own to stand shoulder to shoulder with China, not hang on their back.
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I second that. It seems like idealism to believe everyone is capable of fighting off their oppressors unassisted, especially with the gap in power as it is. Sounds like bootstrapism. Some people are severely disadvantaged and require assistance. I wouldn’t have expected the intentionally fractured German proletariat to defeat the Nazis alone, for example. Maybe after a long decline but not then.
Great example.
I do think a movement has to show something resembling competence before being lent assistance, if one is doomed to fail why lose an arm trying to pick it up?
Keep it civil please. The merits of non-interventionism should be discussed in good faith.
I was being civil, but a bit tongue in cheek, I must confess. I wasn’t meaning to offend. Truly sorry about that.
Its very existence is tearing apart the Western economies by making them obsolete. I think its impressive by virtue of being the first socialist state the US just stands no chance against. Any future communist states will only be possible because of China. And yes, they’re not perfect. But we should take into account trajectory. They’re getting much better very quickly while most everyone else is on the decline.
I think it’s a great country with a fascinating history, excellent modern infrastructure, delicious food, breathtaking natural landscapes and very nice people, although their language is somewhat difficult to learn.
Positive. Despite facing difficult problems for it’s entire existence the CPC have again and again handled the situation. The result is that China is the industrial and soon technological powerhouse of the world, with a continually increasing standard of living. Additionally they have a positive impact on the rest of the world with their trade and diplomatic relations, New Energy Vehicles and solar panels being one example. I think the CPC have a very good chance to continue leading China in a positive trajectory.
One of the most successful socialist countries in history thus far.
It’s not perfect but objectively better than the Imperial Core and most of the Imperial Periphery. They’re also an example of a healthy relationship with technology that enables embracing it and not going into reactionary neoluddism, especially re: AI
Cautiously optimistic about the Chinese socialist project.
Only time will tell where it ultimately leads, but right now it’s looking progressive.
The western empire makes them look like angels on earth by comparison. But they are more complicated than that, struggling through the implementation of theory and learning from practice, as one should expect from a transition-based communist vanguard state project. They share a position of deserved praise for their accomplishments along with other AES projects, along with deserving fair assessment from good faith comrades looking to ensure mistakes are caught and corrected along the way. They are on the path to play a very defining historical role for decades to come, which is a lot of responsibility, and it is on international comrades as a shared responsibility to ensure they have support in the struggle for liberation and are not being expected to carry the weight of the world on their shoulders.
It’s very important that they not end up in a position of overextending beyond what they can manage on their own and I think being careful of that is a lesson they consciously learned from the USSR’s failures. One of their aims seems to be to nurture an international world of sovereign countries who have win-win connections with themself (China) and with others. This helps materially weaker countries shake off the yoke of imperialism and become capable in their own right, which furthers the goal of liberation, while avoiding the problem of dependency on China as a burden that it can’t carry.
For me, it’s hard not to put them on a pedestal, considering how well they do compared to the west and its barbarism. But they are still human and it is important to remember that, so that we understand we can do like them in other countries; that it’s not out of reach, but it is a protracted, organized struggle and one they have had to go through themselves in order to reach the relative prosperity they have achieved. A struggle that continues for them now and which is perhaps reaching one of its most important points in history, considering the disproportionately influential role they can play in what shapes the international landscape going forward.
China went from feudalism to socialism. They have capitalist characteristics under a socialist system in order to go from the Marxist idea of going from feudalism to capitalism to socialism. They are becoming more socialist since Deng Xiaoping who started liberalizing the economy. This has been seen as billionaires are decreasing in China and more power is going towards the government.
Umm what? Do you thunk that decollectivizing agriculture and reintroducing markets and labour-as-commodity is a step TOWARDS socialism? The productive forces have been expanded enormously but when do we start seeing the class distinctions being abolished onstead of bolstered year-on-year?
In China’s case yes. Do you know the context of why they did this? The difficulties the Chinese system was having before Reform and Opening up? How easy do you think it would have been for a more tightly controlled and planned economy to operate in the post-USSR world? Do you think the US and the West would have ever given much foreign investment at all to bolster industry?
I am just worried that it is a change of social relations that cannot be “rolled back” without another violent revolution.
The proletariat already controls the state, there’s no need for a revolution to put the proletariat in charge again.
I understand the fear. But the workers are the ones in charge. The transition to the higher stages of socialism, of which they’re approaching, might be met with violence from the bourgeoisie but it won’t require revolution.
You cannot establish highly developed socialism with underdeveloped productive forces. The reforms in China accelerated the movement towards highly developed productive forces, which form the basis of highly developed socialism. It was therefore a move towards socialism and an advance.
I was wondering what modern day communists think about current China because I have heard many different and conflicting opinions by people who should theoretically be on the same side of the political spectrum.
I’m sorry if I’m not polite. If I may give you a suggestion, I think you’d better go into detail about what you mean by “many different and conflicting opinions” so you can get more satisfactory answers.
