Update: Mindless downvotes will be taken as evidence that degrowthers (of which I am one) are not capable of defending their ideas. What’s the point of a community where one only sees things that confirm one’s biases? I don’t get it. Maybe this lazy tribal attitude helps explain why degrowth is so deeply unpopular.

This seems as good a presentation as we’ll get of the case against degrowth. Namely that it’s a political loser, the environment be damned. People in this community probably want to read things they already agree with (update - they sure do). I’d say we’d do better by first taking seriously the arguments of the other side. Which appear quite solid, to the point that it’s hard to know how to go about countering them.

Some choice excerpts:

Most Americans care deeply about building wealth: Roughly 79 percent describe their money as “extremely” or “very” important to them. Eighty-four percent say there’s “nothing wrong” with trying to make as much money as possible […]

In 2024 […] Trump made major gains in large, immigrant-rich urban counties, where service-sector employment is dominant. […] Why did these previously stalwart Democrats break for Trump? Because they are all upwardly mobile groups, for whom pocket-book issues are central. More than progressive pandering, they want the opportunity to participate in the American dream—and Trump seemed to promise that. […]

To their credit, some liberals have tried to fill the void created by this anti-capitalist conservatism. The Atlantic’s Derek Thompson and his co-author, Ezra Klein, have pushed for an “abundance” liberalism in their new book […] [W]e now have two major parties infected by the gospel of no-wealth. Both parties embrace, in Klein and Thompson’s phrasing, a “scarcity” mindset rather than an “abundance” mindset.

  • Andy@slrpnk.net
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    7 days ago

    How do you determine which downvotes are mindless and which are considered?

    • JubilantJaguar@lemmy.worldOP
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      7 days ago

      Given that my contributions are always made in good faith, and that I always choose to assume good faith on the part of others, I consider all downvotes to be poisonous. “Mindless” is the generous hypothesis.

      • Andy@slrpnk.net
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        5 days ago

        I’m still drinking my coffee, so if you’re joking I apologize for not picking that up. But downvotes are critique. No one enjoys critique, but it’s not poisonous. It’s how we learn and grow.

        Even if you make your comments in good faith you can still have an opinion people think is misinformed or bad. And if you reject all critique you’re cutting off your own opportunity to learn.

        • JubilantJaguar@lemmy.worldOP
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          5 days ago

          you can still have an opinion people think is misinformed or bad

          The article does not represent my opinion. Never mind. My attempt at stimulating a debate by means of a contrary viewpoint did not go well and I will bear that in mind before trying anything similar in this community again.

          • Andy@slrpnk.net
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            5 days ago

            I was referring to when you said that you consider all downvotes poisonous.

            My point is that if you live your life in a way where you create an excuse to dismiss anyone who disagrees with you, you foreclose on logic, and growth, and really your ability to persuade people too.

            • JubilantJaguar@lemmy.worldOP
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              4 days ago

              And in return, my own condescending advice to you is that if you boo and jeer people in preference to engaging them in constructive debate, then you should not be surprised when they withdraw to more welcoming spaces where people behave with the civility that we all consider normal in person.

      • Boomkop3@reddthat.com
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        5 days ago

        You can disable downvotes if you like. You simply will not be bothered unless someone has the courage to speak up. And the totals you’ll see will be based on upvotes alone